Phone-hacking trial: Stuart Kuttner police interview 'hard going' says Judge
After a delayed start the jury took their seats to hear further evidence from the prosecution. The court began by hearing transcripts of police interviews conducted with Stuart Kuttner, the News of the World's then managing editor, in 2011. This was done by having a police officer in the witness stand read out the police questions put to Kuttner while Mark Bryant-Heron for the Crown read out his answers.
Trial: Former NotW managing editor Stuart Kuttner
In the early part of the interview the police went over the production process in the build up to Saturday night, when the NotW went to press, before moving on to asking about his use of email, of which Kuttner told police, he "was not a fan" and perhaps was "the last person in the company who got email". Kuttner's statement also confirmed that his personal assistant had his password and, on occasion, sent emails on his behalf. The police then told Kuttner they wanted to examine his blackberry and his two mobile phones. His lawyer, Mr Burton, who was also present at the interview, told the police he would hand them over along with any PIN number.
Kuttner was then asked when he became involved in stories. He gave the example of the run up to 2005 election when he was asked to interview the prime minister and the chancellor "as a couple" to see "how they got on". Kuttner told the police he had been asked to do this as he had an "interest in politics". He would also be involved when the News of the World was offering a reward for information, liaising with police over the Soham murders as an example. Kuttner also was keenly involved in the campaign for "Sarah's Law", a proposal that the names of convicted paedophiles should be made public to protect children. "The word reporter is inscribed in my heart," Kuttner then told the police.
The police officer conducting the interview then moved on to financial issues and asked Kuttner to go through the procedure he used in authorising expense claims. However, as the questioning became more detailed the ex-managing editor replied to some questions saying that his memory was "impaired" and answered "I don't recall". Kuttner said he would not always deal with outside contributors as this process was "devolved" to department heads.
The interview then moved on to payments and Kuttner was asked when cash payments would be authorised. Kuttner replied that it would be "neater" if payments were made through bank payments, but there could be situations when someone came to the paper with "important information" and "wanted to catch the next plane to wherever" when cash payments would be authorised. These payments, Kuttner confirmed, would come to his office to be approved. Asked whose job it was to check the accuracy of any information supplied, Kuttner responded that it was up to the reporter bringing in the story. Asked who had the responsibility if information was gathered by "illegal means", Kuttner replied it would be the person who had used the unlawful methods.
The interview went on with the police asking what happened if a story was "contentious". Kuttner responded that in that case there would be a "pre-publication inquest" between the department heads and the editor. Kuttner said this would also be checked legally with the in-house legal staff asking to see any evidence. Kuttner said that as managing editor "it was not his responsibility" to check information, and that he was "utterly appalled" to have read about phone-hacking and about the allegations he faced personally. Kuttner said to the police that in his 29 years at News of the World, he had "never knowingly bribed a policeman" or played any role in the "hacking or bugging of phones".
The court then took a short break.
When the jury returned, the court continued to hear a transcript of Stuart Kuttner's police interviews being read out to the court. When Kuttner was asked about his resignation from the NotW in 2009, he explained that the editor had changed his role and he was not willing to move to a part-time position so he decided to leave after.
After his resignation he received a "warm and personal letter" from Rupert Murdoch. He did however have a continuing relationship with the paper until its "devastating closure" in 2011. This, he explained, was why he still possessed mobile phones belonging to the company. He went on to say he hoped his work for the company "which was appreciated by Mr Murdoch" would continue to be seen to have value.
The police then moved on to ask about Kuttner's relationship with Rebekah Brooks. The ex-managing editor said she was a "very capable newspaper woman". Kuttner said this was "very difficult as it was nine, ten years ago" and he had "no specific recollections" but thought they had a good relationship and he "liked her", she could "not be faulted for her commitment".
He did however remember journalists looking for the "Beat of Bodmin" (a supposed large cat roaming the South of England) and he had, with Brooks, "cross-examined" the journalists and realised they were embellishing the story so "saving the paper the embarrassment" if they had published. Kuttner also recalled speaking with Brooks at "political conferences" over Sarah's Law.
The police officer then asked Kuttner if he spoke to the editor by phone. He replied he might over staff matters, such as "non-attendance", which he might bring to the attention to the editor. Asked if he had contact with Brooks, he said he had spoken to her for the first time in years a few days before the police interview.
He said he had contacted her over a newspaper story alleging that the News of the World had intercepted the voicemail of Sara Payne, the mother of murdered child Sarah Payne, whose death sparked off the campaign for Sarah's Law. Kuttner said that he was so concerned that he called Brooks to ask if she knew anything about it. Brooks, Kuttner told the police, said she was drafting a statement and that "everything would be all right".
The police then asked Kuttner if he was involved in phone-hacking. The ex-managing editor replied that he had "neither conspired with Rebekah Brooks or anyone else over phone-hacking". Asked if it was part of the culture of the News of the World to "turn a blind eye" and get the story by whatever means required, Kuttner replied: "Not that I am aware of."
Kuttner then told the police that he was "frustrated" by the questions he was being asked.
The interview then moved on to Kuttner's relationship with Andy Coulson, who took over as News of the World editor from Rebekah Brooks in 2003. Kuttner described Coulson as a "nice guy, astute, focused", and went on to tell police that Coulson was "closer to people" than most editors. Asked when he last spoke to Coulson Kuttner told the police it was when "he was with the Conservative party" and was suffering from "bad publicity".
Kuttner said he rang Coulson's wife and passed on a message: "If there is anything I can do to help ask him to get in touch." Coulson, Kuttner said, called me back and they had a chat and "that was about that".
The police then asked Kuttner if he had ever ever discussed phone-hacking with Coulson. Kuttner said yes, but only to agree "how appalled we were with the whole business". Kuttner called the day Clive Goodman was arrested for hacking as his "most traumatic day in newspapers". He then added he was "shattered" by being interviewed under caution.
He had, he said, gone to the police station to help "fill in gaps" and was distressed to have to answer "these utterly unfounded accusations". Kuttner denied any conspiracy to hack phones with Andy Coulson or anyone else.
Kuttner was then asked about his relationship with News of the World Royal reporter Clive Goodman. The ex-managing editor told the police that he had "very good Royal contacts" and often passed these on to Goodman. He had also picked up Goodman at the police station after he was arrested for phone-hacking in 2006, and saw Goodman in his office when the Royal reporter needed cash payments signed off.
He described the news that Goodman had been arrested as a "nightmare". Goodman, Kuttner said, would rarely leave the office to follow up stories and he had gone to Paris with Brooks to cover a story that Goodman should have done. Asked about the story, Kuttner told the police they went to meet a John Bryan who claimed he'd had a relationship with the Duchess of York. Kuttner complained that the journey had taken 17 hours. The police officer expressed sympathy and Kuttner added he "did not know it was physically possible to intercept voicemails on another telephone" until after Goodman was arrested.
In the interview Kuttner was then asked if he knew Goodman was working with convicted phone hacker Glenn Mulcaire. Kuttner replied "How to explain this, no, did i know then "possibly yes....I knew when he was arrested, possibly knew before." Asked how Goodman could have paid Mulcaire through the false name "Alexander" Kuttner replied that he trusted his staff and "why would one think this was an invention." Kuttner told the police interrogator that he was "wounded" by the news Alexander was a false name. As managing editor it was not his job to "micromanage his highly paid staff," he gave them a budget and they chose how to spend it.
Kuttner was then asked by the police if he had ever conspired with Clive Goodman to intercept voicemails. Kuttner denied this, adding: "If Goodman claimed I was aware of his unlawful activities that is completely false."
Kuttner was then asked if there was any "gossip" in the office about phone-hacking. Kuttner replied: "I can't recall, seems to me quite likely though." The officer then asked Kuttner about his Royal contacts. The former managing editor told the police that these were confidential and "he wouldn't dream of naming them". The court then moved on to a further interview conducted at the end of August 2001, a few weeks after the interview summarised above.
The police officer began this interview by confirming Kuttner's work and personal email addresses and which computers he used at work. Kuttner also confirmed he kept paper records as he was "old fashioned" and "I quite like some things on paper".
Asked by the police for an example Kuttner told the court he kept photocopies of any contributor payment requests for over £1,000 so he had an "easily accessible copy". Copies would also be sent to the payroll office in Peterborough where they were entered into a computer system. There was then a discussion on external auditing and accounting and budgeting procedure between the officer and Kuttner.
Judge Saunders apologised to the jury, explaining that he realised this was "hard going" but it to be done. The court then rose for lunch.
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