Phone-hacking trial: ‘A tough day, but we had to do it,’ Judge tells jury

The police interviewer then put it to Kuttner that he seemed to be having problems remembering things and asked if there was any medical condition affecting his memory. Kuttner said "I think you should ask my doctor" about that, adding that it was "not all in there" while pointing to his head. He continued: "I can't recall what I can't recall," and "I am disappointed that I am being charged with an offence... I'm trying to not use the word resent.. I'm not, for the avoidance of doubt, trying to keep anything back.. there has been an enormous passage of time."

The police interviewer then made the point that Kuttner was managing editor at the News of the World only two years before. Kuttner replied that since then he'd had "two heart attacks and a brain stem stroke".

The police interview then moved on to another subject: Kuttner's knowledge of convicted phone-hacker Glenn Mulcaire. Kuttner answered that all he knew was what he had read in the newspaper but did agree that Mulcaire had a contract as an "inquiry agent" for the News of the World for a "number of years", worth about £100,000 per year.

Kuttner was asked if he knew what sort of information Mulcaire was providing, he said he did not. He also did not recall hearing what Mulcaire did, who introduced him to the paper or what the terms of his contract were. Kuttner told the police: "I don't know what sort of services he would have been providing," but he did remember someone, he could not recall who, suggesting it would be more "cost-effective" to put Mulcaire on a contract rather than pay him on an ad-hoc basis.

The interviewer then asked Kuttner if he thought £100,000 a year was a significant sum of money, Kuttner replied it was a "chunky sum" but had to be seen in the context of a newsdesk with a budget of "several hundred thousand a week".

Asked who was responsible for monitoring the value for money received from Mulcaire's services, Kuttner suggested it may have been the newsdesk, but he was not sure. Kuttner also agreed that Mulcaire was paid extra money by Clive Goodman, but could not recall where he had heard that information. Kuttner was asked of he ever spoke to Mulcaire, he replied: "I don't recall, but if I did, I did."

He then added that he may have spoken to Mulcaire about payments but had "no recollection of doing so. However, if he [Mulcaire] says he met me in the pub I wouldn't deny it, but I've no recollection of it."

The jury was then asked to leave the court while a legal matter was discussed.

When the jury returned the court began hearing the reading of a third police interview with Stuart Kuttner. The judge told the jury that he realised these were hard work but "the good news is that this time we can start from page seven". The reading then commenced.

In the interview, Kuttner was asked about a paid contributor called "Paul Williams", whom Kuttner agreed was another pseudonym for Glenn Mulcaire although he had "no recollection" of seeing a payment in the name of Jane Street, John Jenkins or "Matey". The police interviewer asked whether or not he would process a payment under the name "Matey" isfsubmitted by Clive Goodman. Kuttner replied that he would ask for an address but as Goodman was a "senior chap" that would satisfy him and he would have "no reason not to trust Clive Goodman".

Kuttner agreed that he did have a recollection of payments to an "Alexander" who, the court has already heard, was another name used by Mulcaire.

Kuttner was then asked when Mulcaire's contract ceased and if he had been involved in the decision to end it. Kuttner replied that he thought it was after Mulcaire had been arrested that was a matter for the editor and the paper's legal advisor, Tom Crone. Kuttner told the police interviewer he may have been consulted but had "no recollection" of it.

Asked if the arrest of Mulcaire had led to any internal inquiries inside the paper to see who else, other than Goodman, he had been supplying, Kuttner said it was a "traumatic time" and while he had no memory of discussions about other journalists and Mulcaire he was sure they would have happened. There was however a move to tighten up on cash payments as a result of the arrests. Staff were also reminded to only work under the editor's code of practice when researching stories.

The police interviewer put it to Kuttner that it was clear that other people outside the Royal family were hacked, such as Max Clifford and Graham Taylor and asked if this suggested that journalists other than Goodman, who was only concerned with the Royals, may have been involved. Kuttner told the officer he had not recollection of that being discussed.

The interview then moved on to former news editor of the paper, Greg Miskiw, and his "investigations unit". Kuttner said this was to remove from the newsdesk the responsibility for long term investigations which could tie up journalists and photographers for weeks on end. He could not remember the exact numbers in the team but believed it was small as they were based in a small office. Kuttner agreed he would speak to Miskiw daily but this would mostly be about money and allocating a budget for the investigations team. Kuttner said he thought Miskiw was the "author" of the idea of giving Glenn Mulcaire a contract with the News of the World.

The police interviewer then asked if the News of the World was a "dog eat dog world". Kuttner said that some journalists would do nothing for weeks then return with a front page splash which was a "very satisfactory state of affairs". There was always competition in the newsroom both internally and between news and the features department, he said.

On Miskiw, Kuttner said that he "was passionate" about his stories, which could be frustrating as they took a lot of time to be ready for publication. Kuttner denied he had ever asked anyone to hack voicemail but he did accept he had asked people on the newsdesk to make inquiries which could have led to Mulcaire's services being used without his knowledge.

The transcript then moved on to Kuttner's relationship with Neville Thurlbeck. Kuttner told the police interviewer that he had worked with him on a story about Lib Dem MP Mark Oaten. The witness went to Oaten's home with Thurlbeck to see if the politician would talk about his "double life".

Thurlbeck, Kuttner recalled, was a "senior reporter" at the paper. Asked if he had knowledge of any contacts between Thurlbeck and Glenn Mulcaire, Kuttner said he did not. The police interviewer then went through the same exercise with another News of the World journalist, James Weatherup, whom he said he "respected" but who sometimes came to his attention for spending a lot of money on expenses. Again, Kuttner denied ever conspiring with Weatherup to intercept voicemails.

The transcript then continued with the police interviewer showing Kuttner documents given to police by News International as a result of "Operation Weeting". The first of these was an email payment request for "Matey" from Clive Goodman to Stuart Kuttner from 1998. Kuttner replied to the interviewer that he had no recollection of the email. The witness was then shown an exclusive contract, already seen by the jury, between the News of the World and Euro Research Ltd, one of Glenn Mulcaire's companies. Kuttner responded that he had "no recollection" of seeing the agreement. Kuttner said he would "speculate" that this had been approved by the editor.

Justice Saunders again apologised for a "tough day... but we had to do it". The court then adjourned until 10am tomorrow.

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