The Intern Agency Scandal - Are PR agencies riding roughshod over interns?

I was under the impression that an internship is also commonly known as unpaid work experience.

This is an important issue for the PR industry, and there's increasing momentum behind ensuring interns are paid an appropriate salary for the job they do within an agency.

It used to be called "work experience", whether it was one day a week or full-time for a year, with the implication that the student should be grateful for the opportunity. Too many agencies still see students as a source of free labour.

Where an informal work experience placement becomes a more formal internship needs defining, but we still have a responsibility to ensure the role of students within the PR industry is valued, and that they are paid appropriately. You wouldn't expect your son or daughter to work shifts at McDonald's for free, so why should you treat your own workers - student or otherwise - any differently?

I think also that if employers had to pay students, regardless of how many days per week they were employed, there would be a much greater incentive to ensure those students got a valuable skills-based experience.

Too black and white for me. Here's what we do.

Anything under a month would class as work experience and not paid for.

We have to allocate a desk, a computer and senior resources to make sure the individual makes the most of their time here.

Anything over one / two months would be considered an internship and paid for at minimum wage. There's two ways of looking at that too - for the individual it's a fantastic opportunity to have a one / two three / or longer job interview - let's face it if they're any good the agency would be mad not to hire them. For the agency they still have to provide a desk, a computer, internal senior resources to mentor and train the individual which does cost as well.

I suspect many, if not most, agencies will be like us too. So I'm sorry, I think you've missed the point, for sensationalism, that work experience / internships get peoples' feet in the door and on their ways to the world of work.

I don't understand why this is even an issue. There's no 'scandal' here. Phil, no, you wouldn't expect your daughter or son to work at McDonald's for free but with the greatest of respect to McDonald's, I don't think flipping burgers or dispensing Coke is considered the same quality of work experience as an internship in a PR agency. I should say here that I don't hire free interns so that's not why I'm defending this practice. Why I'm defending it is:

1) Being awarded an internship is a privilege 2) Working for free is part of proving your commitment to your own development and future career 3) I can't see how anyone's "riding roughshod" over interns. Surely no-one's forcing them to work for free?

The argument about this being unfair to impoverished students isn't all that valid as far as I'm concerned. My wife worked a full time job all the way through University.

One thing I would like to see happening is far, far more people going straight into marketing companies from school. There's no need to go to University in many cases.

Lunch and travel isn't enough. If someone is worth hiring they are worth paying. The worst example I've seen is a freelance fashion PR expecting an intern to do her entire job for her. The only remuneration was going to industry events. I sincerely hope whoever took the 'job' has now nicked all her 'employer's' clients. Interns add value to the company and should be compensated. The idea of not paying them is part of a wider culture that includes creative 'competitions' where everyone does the work but only one gets paid. Being an intern *is* a good way to get into the industry but companies shouldn't exploit that. There's also the ethical issue of whether clients are aware that their work is being done by unpaid juniors rather than the senior people they see in meetings. Creatively, if you only pick your new talent from the relatively small pool of young people who can afford to work for nothing, you're shooting yourself in the foot. And all for six quid an hour.

A defence of free labour on the basis of "an internship is a privilege" or a "foot in the door" shows why we need to change our attitudes as an industry.

Because there are so many students clamouring for jobs in PR or marketing, we expect them to be grateful for any opportunities for work experience (what % actually result in permanent jobs?). By not paying them, we're simply exploiting that situation.

We call it "work experience", but that's simply hiding the fact we're expecting a student to do for free what we would normally have to pay someone to do (a good definition of exploitation). And if it's not something you'd pay someone to do, what's the value in asking a student to do it?

You either take on the internship at the terms offered or you don't. No-one's forcing anyone to do anything, are they Judy?

The economy is. And if established people don't oppose the practice, we all are. If we don't make unpaid internships unacceptable it will undermine the standing of the industry as a whole, as well as making companies look hypocritical and greedy (read the first paragraph).

The economy is. And if established people don't oppose the practice, we all are. If we don't make unpaid internships unacceptable it will undermine the standing of the industry as a whole, as well as making companies look unprincipled and greedy (read the first paragraph).

The economy isn't relevant Judy. This practice has existed in the good times and the bad and in all industries - not uniquely in PR/marketing.

Also, if these students are all doing as good a job as your teams, why are they at Uni?

I think this discussion becomes even more interesting if referencing the movie: The Pursuit of Happyness.

Interesting point Melissa. Let's also note that some big industrial concerns are already offering to pay off uni fees for those who get on to their graduate programmes. They must think £27K per person is worth it to have their pick of the best candidates, regardless of economic background.

Hi! I am a postgraduate student who just finished a Master's in PR and is looking for a job. I agree with Robert's opinion and believe that sometimes Execs cannot really understand/remember the situation of being young, unemployed, with no experience and no money. People like me, who studied journalism and only later on decided to go into PR, are trapped. We have an MA in PR and we have a very good understanding of the industry; however, because we have no experience we need to apply for unpaid internships because agencies always look for recent graduates with work experience. So this was to answer to Adam's rhetorical question (Surely no-one's forcing them to work for free?). No Adam, no one's pointing a gun to our head, but if we want an entry-level job (I thought entry-level = no experience) we need experience. How are we supposed to have experience if we just graduated? (and we worked during our first degree to pay for it and took a year off to work to pay for the Master's)? We need an internship, apparently. Otherwise it's all a vicious circle - no experience no entry-level job. I am very honest when I say that we are passionate about PR and we'd just like to have the chance to 'survive' whilst working. Living in the UK, near the big cities where more job opportunities arise, is very expensive.

chant14992 - we're recruiting (proper job!), so if you're interested please get in touch via the jobs@ address on the website (Contact page).

Chant14992 do not do a masters. Instead, spend that year networking - LinkedIn (groups in particular) is a good place to start. And well before that year's out, you'll have a good new job. And if you've done the Masters, fine, start networking now. The more people you know, the more un-advertised opportunities will come your way.

Send me your CV - one of our clients (financial PR) is looking for an account exec and a social media exec ('entry level'). Adamgordon@socialmediasearch.co.uk

Work experience is just that - experience. It depends on how long it lasts as to whether it should be paid or not. Most of the people you end up taking on need a LOT of instruction and mentoring before you can just leave them to it. I always thought the way it works is - they learn how to do the job, you get a bit of help for a couple of weeks.

We are a small agency, and have in the past tried to give interns the opportunity of two or three weeks' work experience. We've always covered their travel and lunch costs, but it now seems that is not legal under employment law. Unless you are a charity, it has to be minimum wage or nothing at all. And we simply can't afford to pay minimum wage at the moment. So we've had to stop taking anyone on.

Adam_Gordon and Reedphil thank you so much for the opportunity. I really appreciate your advice and interest. Unfortunately, I am looking for a job in the South, and I would like to work in the public, travel, and entertainment sectors mostly. Therefore, I will not apply for the jobs. I only apply for those positions I really want now - I think the 100-applications-approach is simply a waste of time for both applicants and the employers. However, I will take into account your precious advice. Thanks!

I'm shocked that this discussion is now about internships over 3 months. If you are an agency running a very short "work experience" placement and you really give the student high quality training, then maybe I can see that perhaps the student shouldn't be paid. But a 2 month internship where you have the student producing output for the company? For free? Apart from being illegal (there is no grey area here by the way) it's wrong. Adam made three points: 1) Being awarded an internship is a privilege - equally getting an educated, talented person work for you is a privilege. 2) Working for free is part of proving your commitment to your own development and future career - no it isn't Trust me, working for nothing is not educational. Working and learning is important. Not getting paid is totally irrelevant. 3) I can't see how anyone's "riding roughshod" over interns. Surely no-one's forcing them to work for free? I REALLY hope that interns realise this. We pay all interns (and work experience placements). And we usually put them on (paid-for) external courses such as the PRCA Foundation course. It's not because we're nice people. We want committed interns. We want to build a relationship with fabulous young people who we might want to employ. We want interns to love our company and feel we treat them fairly. And - of course - we also believe in not breaking the law. Interns: if an agency isn't paying you, it's because they don't value your abilities and enthusiasm. I can understand if you feel you must take an unpaid internship, but please understand that an unpaid internship is built upon the premise that the agency doesn't properly value your contribution.