UK's first E-lites advert 'likely to confuse' ASA claims Allyson Stewart-Allen

The controversy this advertising is likely to provoke and consequent publicity will no doubt have more awareness building impact for electronic cigs than the ad itself . As someone thinking about trying them to quit I think its a good move on their part. Pharmaceutical industry that makes a fortune out of stop smoking aids etc. of course will do all they can to stop this ;)

Electronic cigarettes use nicotine – an addictive poison that may cause cancer. Already banned in some countries - they are unregulated in the UK !

The Nicotine Industry is unscrupulous, wanting nothing less than to recruit a whole new generation of nicotine addicts, and to have everyone buying and using these devices.

To the NI each addicted lifelong customer is worth maybe £80k - £120k - before the customer finally dies of their addiction or forces them self to stop smoking.

The NI is out to make money - regardless of public health.

The NI will use subtle and devious marketing tactics to recruit new addicted customers - such customers are worth a lot of money to the NI.

Every time one of these things is smoked in public subliminal advertising takes place and it normalises smoking - sending out a message to young people and naive people that it is ok to smoke and use drugs.

Wouldn't the NI just love these devices to be the next schoolyard craze, with children addicted to pocket money priced candy flavoured nicotine which they buy and smoke on the way to and from school, smoking them at bus stops and in playgrounds and classrooms; becoming lifelong addicted customers who potentially will move on to harder drugs.

The NI will do whatever they can get away with to recruit an addicted lifelong customer, and their uncontrolled lifestyle marketing is most effective with naïve consumers (aka school children and young people).

These devices should be controlled identically to tobacco cigarettes, and come under exactly the same smokefree regulations and control as tobacco cigarettes – and be available as a cheaper, possibly less dangerous, alternative.

ASH USA have an interesting article on the subject: http://ash.org/nyecigban.html

If you are concerned about electronic cigarettes - act now and complain about them so that we don't sleepwalk back into the NI brainwashed smoking society of the 1950's -for example, you could write to your local MP for a start to say how you feel. Or complain to the ASA about the adverts that are appearing.

There is also a petition available - you could sign the petition and, more importantly, encourage you friends to sign it too:

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/44686

"Always remember, that the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

Oh god...

Hi Velon36662 - I am also complaining about these devices. I'm pleased to hear that someone else is too - I was beginning to think that I was the only one !

It is known that the Nicotine Industry stands to make big money out of recruiting electronic cigarette addicts. Smokers mindlessly repeat the stuff that they have been told to believe and say by the NI, because they want to believe it.

Electronic cigarettes will be like re-reading an old book (about tobacco cigarettes - a horror story) and expecting a different ending !

Patches and gum are not visible so don't ‘self advertise' to people who are particularly impressionable or naïve and don't encourage others to start breathing an addictive poison. And also patches and gum don't pollute the air that others breathe, so are reasonably unharmful to others.

Those smokers who do mindlessly repeat the propaganda of the NI - should realise that at one time, in the face of huge awareness and warnings, they ignored those warnings and started smoking anyway. They therefore have a proven track record of making poor decisions in their own life regarding the safety of nicotine and their own personal health - so bear that in mind when you listen to 'their' opinions, and don't let them behave like drug pushers on behalf of the NI.

Ideally these things should be banned (same for tobacco).

But maybe, pragmatically, they should just be treated no differently to tobacco cigarettes regarding age restrictions on purchase, advertising and display, and not being smoked in public areas etc. Taxing them fairly highly too will help to discourage the takeup of these devices and help to pay for the inevitable ensuing health costs and 'safety assessments' of these devices.

People I've spoken to who have or do use these devices are quite comfortable with such an approach – they realise that starting smoking was just about the worst thing they ever did and, not wishing to encourage others to start smoking, by being seen smoking in public, are happy using these devices in the privacy of their own homes.

Take a look again at that link about smoking electronic cigarettes that I posted earlier:

http://ash.org/nyecigban.html

Notably, in that report, it states that there is a lack of scientific evidence that electronic cigarettes help people to quit smoking. And also, the devices are not actually being marketed as a smoking cessation aid.

At their annual BMA conference in 2012, public health doctors agreed that electronic cigarettes should be included in the ban on smoking in public places. The BMA have also stated that "there is a lack of rigorous, peer-reviewed studies to support the use of e-cigarettes as a safe and effective nicotine-replacement therapy". And, "furthermore, these devices may undermine efforts to prevent or stop smoking by making cigarette use seem normal in public and at work".

See the link below:

http://bma.org.uk/working-for-change/improving-and-protecting-health/tob...

And just to borrow a bit from that ASH report: “Public interest law professor John Banzhaf of ASH, argues that there is no possible justification for subjecting the great majority of Americans who are non-smokers to the totally unnecessary risks posed by a mixture of toxins and carcinogens. Even if e-cigarettes did help some smokers quit -- which the FDA denies -- "it's your monkey, keep him off my back." “

Hi marvi21176,

I don't understand at all this comment that you have made:

"People like peter10625 are the reason why so many people still smoke tobacco, and their deaths are partly due the horrible and morally corrupt campaigns that people like peter10625 partake in."

Could you please clarify ?

Thank you.

@marvi21176

So your own brother knows that you were a tobacco smoker at one time, and have now switched to electronic cigarettes - and now even your own brother doesn't trust you to know what you're talking about. That is sad.

Were you the one who introduced him to smoking ? - I don't blame him for not trusting you in that case - quite understandable.

As I said earlier:

"Those smokers who do mindlessly repeat the propaganda of the NI - should realise that at one time, in the face of huge awareness and warnings, they ignored those warnings and started smoking anyway. They therefore have a proven track record of making poor decisions in their own life regarding the safety of nicotine and their own personal health - so bear that in mind when you listen to 'their' opinions, and don't let them behave like drug pushers on behalf of the NI."

So your brother sounds like a smart guy - all he has to do now is realise that he isn't 'addicted' - he just has a 'psychological dependency' - and that he can quit smoking tobacco any time he wants - just by stopping.

Might also help you to realise that you have just switched from one nicotine delivery system for another - and in so doing you are in fact maintaining your 'addiction'. And if you had just stopped smoking altogether 15 months ago you would be benefitting now from having lived for 15 months as a non-smoker.

I do think that in an ideal world these things would be banned (same for tobacco).

But to be pragmatic, they should just be treated no differently to tobacco cigarettes regarding age restrictions on purchase, advertising and display, and not being smoked in public areas etc. Taxing them fairly highly too will help to discourage the takeup of these devices by the young and naive and help to pay for the almost inevitable burden of ensuing state health costs and state 'safety assessments' of these devices.

So the best advice is to just use them in the privacy of your own home, out of sight, and don't encourage others to smoke by smoking them in front of others.

But the really best thing to do for your health and for the sake of your loved ones is to just quit them altogether - it's a bit like the decision as to whether it is better to edge slowly into the sea at the seaside, thinking "it's too cold I can't do it, I don't like it" or whether it is better to plunge in or dive in and get it over with quickly !

Good luck with what you are trying to do - and don't be afraid to dive in - the water's lovely and there is nothing to fear !

@marvi21176

Let me explain. When you smoke a cigarette in public (either tobacco or electronic, they both look the same from any sort of distance) it sends out a ‘message' to anyone who notices you doing it – the observer. However, the message that is received by the observer depends upon the life experience and perspective of the observer.

For example:

Mature non-smokers might think a range of thoughts on seeing you smoking. e.g.

“Marv likes smoking – no idea what he sees in it”

“Marv is smoking again – he's spending a lot of money on that smoking equipment”

“Hey Marv really loves smoking, look at the way he is sucking on those cigarettes - like a baby on a dummy”

“Marv is smoking his electronic cigarette again – I wonder if they really are as safe as the Nicotine Industry would have Marv believe? Rather him than me, I just hope that he doesn't expect to smoke it in this office because I don't want to be breathing in those fumes thank you very much.”

By contrast a fellow electronic cigarette user might think “Hey, Marv is smoking an electronic cigarette the same brand as mine – I've found a friend, so the brand I'm smoking must be safe and ok to smoke -- yippee!—we can smoke together – what fun! We can get together and have a good old chat about how we customise our toys that the NI have so thoughtfully developed for us”.

(Note the NI has created at least one brand of electronic cigarettes which contain electronics in each packet to detect when one packet is in range of another, and signal its owners accordingly, to intentionally enable this situation and hence build its market share!)

And some mature adults and non-smokers, with some life experience, who lost their grandparents in the 1970's as a result of the marketing of cigarettes by the nicotine industry, and who have subsequently watched many other smoking relatives over the years perish in a similar fashion, will look at Marv and think:

“I can't believe that he is smoking that device in public! Talk about setting a bad example to children!”.

And the reason that they have that thought is because with their knowledge and experience of a.) smoking and b.) children, will know that children, and naïve young people, will also be looking at Marv smoking - and those children and naïve young people will have no real awareness or understanding of the history of tobacco smoking and the NI, and will be thinking things like:

“Hey, look at the funny man sucking on that little white stick – that looks like fun I'd love to have a go at that.”

“Here's one of those electronic cigarette things that my dad left in the front room and told me not to touch – he's just popped out for a while so I can have a few sucks on it whilst he's out and pretend to be just like dad, my hero.”

And so on and so forth. And before you know it the child, or naïve young person, after smoking just a few times is ‘addicted' and the Nicotine Industry has captured another lifelong customer whose life has just been screwed up by the NI just because the child didn't know any better and no responsible adult was around at the time to help save them from the NI.

And those naïve young people will not perceive there to be any difference between a tobacco cigarette and an electronic cigarette – except that ‘tough boys' smoke tobacco cigarettes.

So some of those individuals will want their friends to believe that they are a.) tough and b.) well off – and they will then move on to tobacco cigarettes to shore up their self-image and make the ultimate image statement to their friends.

And they will remain addicted to smoking throughout their lives and eventually experience a painful early demise from any one of the myriad diseases that it has been proven will arise from a lifetime of smoking.

And they might well also move on to harder drugs as a result of their introduction to smoking.

And all because you, Marv, were ready and willing to act as a drug pusher, working on behalf of the NI by using the devices in public. Well done.

I am afraid that you Marvi21176 have been totally brainwashed by the Nicotine Industry and your community of electronic cigarette lovers that you hang around on forums with.

The NI (the leader of your ‘smoking religion') has very helpfully done your thinking for you , and has brainwashed you, and told you that your ‘enemy' is big pharma.

Whilst I am no great fan of the big pharma industry myself I do see that with NRT patches big pharma do recommend that you stop using them after 3 months or so – if they haven't worked – and this at least gives you an incentive and an end date to finally quit by.

I do see that big pharma do understand that there is a danger of overdosing on nicotine and hence have recommendations about not using more than one patch at one time, and not using them whilst smoking.

I have yet to see this kind of guidance and advice in relation to the electronic cigarettes produced by the NI.

The reason that the NI has so thoughtfully brainwashed you into thinking your ‘enemy' is big pharma is to misdirect your attention away from who your real enemy is

And your real ‘enemy' isn't the majority 80% or so of non-smokers who believe that smoking in public is anti-social and socially irresponsible, as previously stated.

Your real ‘enemy' is the NI itself, which tries to misdirect your thinking on to the big pharma as being ‘the enemy'.

It is the NI which peddles and markets nicotine with the goal of building addicted lifelong customers, all with a view to making money regardless of the damage to the health and lives of those customers.

It is the NI that splits and divides families and implants stupid ideas and beliefs about ‘freedom to smoke'.

It is the NI which prevents grandparents from seeing their grandchildren grow up.

It is the NI that competes to target and recruit young naïve smokers in the knowledge that if they can get the victim hooked to their product first they will make more money over the victim's lifetime, because of brand loyalty and inertia.

It is the NI that produces electronic cigarettes that look no different to tobacco cigarettes – to implant confusion in the minds of the young naïve consumer as to what is dangerous and what might be less dangerous.

Ask yourself why it is that the NI doesn't produce electronic cigarettes that look like inhalers for, say, asthma. Do you think it might be because the NI believe that if they did a.) they wouldn't sell, and b.) the NI wouldn't profit from the confusion arising from tobacco and electronic cigarettes having a similar appearance?

It is the NI that, for example, advertises electronic cigarettes without mentioning that a.) they contain nicotine, and b.) are ‘addictive' – so that young people who may have been warned about nicotine by their parents don't realise the true content of electronic cigarettes and just how potentially dangerous they are.

It is the NI that promotes electronic cigarettes using the words ‘safer' without specifying what they are supposed to be safer than; but which implies to children that tobacco cigarettes must be safe-ish and that electronic cigarettes are safer. And they must be safer because children, in the UK, can buy them in the shops – there is no age restriction or regulation on the advertising or display of these devices!

And something that is really strange that I've noticed is that the moment electronic cigarettes are mentioned on the internet almost immediately some electronic cigarette evangelist immediately makes a post about just how wonderful these devices are.

I can't help thinking that these electronic cigarette users are all being encouraged to do this by the NI? Or maybe they ARE the NI – with some kind of electronic cigarette business on eBay?

All very strange really.

Thankfully marvi21176 not all smokers are as socially irresponsible as yourself. I have a number of smokers as friends and it has to be said that they all understand the idea of not setting a bad example to impressionable children and young people.

As I said earlier, they do also seem to appreciate that starting smoking was just about the worst thing that they ever did and, not wishing to encourage others to start smoking, by being seen smoking in public, are content to use these devices in the privacy of their own homes.

I guess that they are also being considerate regarding the fact that people don't want to breathe in the secondhand fumes emitted by these devices.

So I would like to think that your beliefs, thoughts and attitudes surrounding smoking are the exception amongst smokers of electronic cigarettes, rather than the norm.

Nevertheless I do certainly wish you the very best with your efforts to quit your habit (it's not an addiction) and I really do hope that you don't leave it too long before you finally 'take the plunge' and quit for good.

I hope that helps.

Anyone against e-cigs need to replace words nicotine with caffeine and e-cig/PV with cup and see how ridiculous you sound. Fascist people who want everybody to do and say the same thing and live the same way as them. Sad frustrated little boys and girls.

Peter,

Can you please explain who this "nicotine industry" actually is?

There is no such thing.

Nicotine is a mild slimulant that is harmless in low quantities, very much like coffee and tea. Like coffee and tea it is addictive.

There have been recent reports about the role nicotine might play in fighting loss of memory in old people, as it has been shown to assist in helping to increase memory retention.

It is the smoke and the toxins that they contain that are the killer with cigarettes. Not with the nicotine. There is no medical evidence to suggest that nicotine causes cancer - in fact the opposite is plainly true because nicotine is sold, quite legally in chemists and hospitals the world over.

eCigarettes are harmless. They only have three ingredients, all three of which are tried and tested safe ingredients. Any nicotine that is inhaled is absorbed immediately in the body and the only thing that is expelled is a harmless vapour.

The only thing people have a problem with is that they look like smoking. Well tough luck to be quite frank. People have the right to use an eCigarette and inhale harmless vapour if they want to and unless it poses a public health issue, which it doesn't, then there is nothing you can do about it.

Just not liking what someone else does is never a good enough reason to ban it.

Very interesting to see some of the comments being made here and elsewhere. - I don't wish to appear to be rude by not answering your questions here and now. To be honest I've spent far too much time on this topic already - so for now I'll just let you know that I do intend to do a little bit more research first and may then come back to you - maybe in a couple of weeks or so.

Regards

I think the research would be a good idea, Peter. Aside from the morality arguments you make (influencing young children etc.), your non-moral claim that the 'fumes' of e-cigs are harmful to the 'smoker' and others around her quite simply contradict all the research data I can find on the internet. Occasionally I find a source which says something like “there's insufficient evidence to determine whether or not e-cigs are a safe(r) alternative to tobacco cigarettes,” but that's starting to sound more like “there's insufficient evidence that magical pixies exist,” - the fact of the non-existence of magical pixies very much accounting for the insufficient evidence. I don't see how anybody could dispute the claims that e-cigs are safer than tobacco cigs, and if every smoker switched to e-cigs then smoking related diseases would plummet (that's basically because no-one would be smoking, but what they call 'vaping'. If you think that's pedantic toying with words, just remember that fumes from burning vegetable matter, e.g. tobacco, are conventionally referred to as “smoke” while water vapour is never referred to as “smoke” unless mistaken for something other than water vapour.)

I've done some research. It is all about the brainwashing of dependent user druggies by the Nicotine Industry to make money.

The situation is that there is a large powerful Nicotine Industry that is trying to push its products, to make money, onto a lot of desperate users who have allowed themselves to be brainwashed into believing the marketing of the Nicotine Industry – which markets them as being safe and healthy. And the users believe that e-cigs are safe and healthy because they WANT to believe – just like they wanted to believe in Father Christmas at one time.

The Nicotine Industry is the same industry that in a bid to make more money by capturing non-smokers (who avoided smoking tobacco out of health concerns), marketed the idea of snuff and chew tobacco as being safe because (the NI said) ‘the danger was in the smoke, not the nicotine'. However, try repeating that piece of marketing creativity to Sean Marsee (Google the name) who was targetted by the Nicotine Industry at age 12 and died at age 19 from oral cancer from his addiction to chewing (not smoking), snuff tobacco (along with many other consumers of smokeless chewing tobacco).

As another example, for four years the Lorillard Company promoted the "health benefits" of its 'Micronite' asbestos filters (!) that were supposed to reduce the effects of the tobacco smoke in the 1950's !!! - Unsurprisingly, many of those who smoked these cigarettes were stricken with mesothelioma, the hallmark cancer resulting from asbestos exposure; simultaneous exposure to asbestos and tobacco smoke have a synergistic effect that increases the health dangers of exposure to these substances (but we know now that nicotine promotes tumour growth so that shouldn't be too much of a surprise).

Smoking electronic cigarettes in public will encourage others to smoke – which is the reason why the smoking epidemic started in the 50s-70s, and is the very reason why the industry has produced them to look like tobacco cigarettes. And the very reason why it is that the Nicotine Industry marketing has actively encouraged and brainwashed its smoking users to defend their ‘freedom' (to slowly kill themselves), by smoking in public.

Many vapers say that e-cigs give them a sore throat.

Don't be at all surprised that e-cigs give you a sore throat. If you do you some research you will find that nicotine is a poison more toxic than arsenic or strychnine. The myth perpetuated by the Nicotine Industry about nicotine being safe and all of the danger being in the smoke (to try and create a new generation of non-smoking, ‘health conscious', dependent users - and make more money, of course) has been overturned by recent research in the last 10-15 years or so. Nicotine is a dangerous addictive psychoactive drug – it is known to encourage tumour growth by (at least) inhibiting programmed cell death, affecting signalling pathways to spread cancer (metastasis), and actively promoting the development of new blood vessels, to feed developing tumours and abnormal development growth – nicotine has been proven to cause birth defects in pregnant women using NRT.

The manufacturer of propylene glycol states that, due to it being a known irritant, it "does not support or recommend its use in applications where inhalation exposure or human eye contact with mists of propylene glycol is likely, such as fogs for theatrical productions...".

No one knows what the long term effect of inhaling nicotine and propylene glycol, combined together, will be. They may well both interact together, as did the Lorillard company's asbestos filters and nicotine.

You can be sure of one thing. The Nicotine Industry is not concerned about you or your health. It is only interested in your money, and in making money out of its dependent users.

No one knows what the untested, long-term consequences of addicted e-cig users chain vaping will be - but it's easy to predict that it won't be good - and that the Nicotine Industry will contest and deny any responsibility for it (as it has done so vigorously in the past - before conceding and make a payout of billions of dollars as compensation for the health costs arising as a result of the suffering it inflicted with its products).

It really is no wonder that so many countries have already banned electronic cigarettes.

Why gamble with your life just to keep the Nicotine Industry in business ?

If you have a sore throat when using e-cigs (and, especially, even if you don't), just listen to what your body (and the bodys of other users) are telling you - and quit smoking altogether.

Nicotine inhalation, regardless of whether you call it smoking or vaping, is a mug's game - always was, and always will be.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/44686

peter10625 Please quote the source of the statement below please.

"Nicotine is a dangerous addictive psychoactive drug – it is known to encourage tumour growth by (at least) inhibiting programmed cell death, affecting signalling pathways to spread cancer (metastasis), and actively promoting the development of new blood vessels, to feed developing tumours and abnormal development growth"

If there was any truth in this statement, electronic cigarettes would have been banned already along with NRT,

If quitting cigarettes was as easy as you seem to think it is then there would not be a tobacco industry today.

For a full list of reports by eminent scientists and health professionals, look here: http://www.clivebates.com/?p=853 They include: Professor John Britton, Chair Tobacco Advisory Group Royal College of Physicians. Dr David Halpern, Head of the Prime Minister's Behavioural Insights Team Professor Jean-François Etter, Head of the tobacco group at Institute of Social and Preventative Medicine, University of Geneva Professor Peter Hajek is Professor of Clinical Psychology, Head of Psychology, Director of Tobacco Dependence Research Unit at the Wolfson Institute of Preventative Medicine Professor Ann McNeil, Addictions Department, Kings College London, writing in the Royal College of Physicians publication Professor Martin Jarvis of University College London, and a leading international authority on nicotine psycho-pharmacology Dr. Karl Erik Lund is an Oslo-based expert on tobacco and public health Professor Karl Fagerström is an internationally renowned Swedish expert in nicotine and one of the pioneers of nicotine replacement therapy Dr Lars Ramström, Institute for Tobacco Studies, Stockholm Professor Michael Kunze is an eminent physician at the Medical University of Vienna Dr Jacques Le Houezec is managing editor of an authoritative source on the treatment of tobacco dependence Dr Gilbert Ross MD is the Executive Director and Medical Director of the American Council on Science and Health Professor Jonathan Foulds, Professor of Public Health Sciences & Psychiatry, Penn State University, College of Medicine Professor Ron Borland is Nigel Gray Distinguished Fellow in Cancer Prevention at Cancer Council Victoria Professor Michael Siegel, Department of Community Health Sciences, Boston University School of Public Health

As I am in the UK I prefer to read the considerations of ASH UK and not the zealots of ASH USA you admire and so much. http://ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_715.pdf

You of all people should know about addition as you seem to be addicted to this thread.